So, after weeks and weeks and months of Radical Women of Color reflecting and discussing, teh femmies have decided that it’s past time for their own reflecting on “radical love.”
Honestly, I can’t help but laugh at their feeble attempts to “radicalize.” “Radicalizing love” means…what? What could it possibly mean???? Not changing your name when you get married! Not caring when people think you don’t shave your armpits!!!!!!
Yes, you read that right.
My response?
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Teh Feminists are so unbearably cute when they’re sincere.
p.s belle hooks, who is mentioned twice as not having a critique of Love–um, actually does. And, well, has been talking about it for a long time, actually. But, well, whatever.
- Share
April 23rd, 2009 at 3:26 pm #
Okay I feel like I am seriously just being mean now – I haven’t personally been shat on by that lady the way a lot of other people have. So, here comes me being an a-hole:
Seriously, you can’t have your own bank account or quit your own fucking job just cuz you’re in a relationship?
And, I say this as someone who is openly against marriage itself – I resent the characterization of partnering one’s life to another as some unavoidably boring, worthless path.
Why the need to make it sound so square and shitty, that people want to share unglamorous lives with each other? Why does it have to be oh-so-un-radical that someone else wants to have kids and do things like pick them up (omg!) just because *I* don’t want to do it?
Why does everything else have to be mocked/put down in order to justify one’s own differing stance?!
Gah!
April 23rd, 2009 at 3:27 pm #
(I know my rant above isn’t really the point of your post, I just felt compelled to rant from that angle anyway.) (Love your post, itself, and the points in it.)
April 23rd, 2009 at 3:30 pm #
Ok, I’m in rare form today, so brashness a-coming!
I’ve never seen anyone talk so much about their pending wedding and yet also declare it’s no big deal! I definitely have to learn this trick too; how to capitalize on the “no big deals” in my life!
The other thing that struck me is in the absence of “love” she has instead taken on the “radical act” of working! Since when is that a choice for most of us? Huh, working and putting bliners on to everything else is NOT breaking down capitalistic constructions, it’s actually reinforcing them! NO! love, get away, love, you make me wash dishes! The horror.
Lastly, I distinctly remember people telling you radical love was a “head in the clouds” concept. Now that it has been watered down, made more suitable for the mass and published in American Propect, it’s the concept of the year!
Come on, can we not see the irony?
April 23rd, 2009 at 3:39 pm #
*walks in *
*brushes dirt of bfp shoulders*
*gives joan kelly terrorist fist bump*
* hands adele rum clinks glass*
Sashays the hell out
April 23rd, 2009 at 3:46 pm #
Girl, that link was to the Prospect. I did not know what was coming.
But that’s a lie. There can only be one.
April 23rd, 2009 at 3:48 pm #
P.S. – This line “Teh Feminists are so unbearably cute when they’re sincere.” made me spit my water out, so freaking funny!
April 23rd, 2009 at 3:52 pm #
amazing. just . . . amazing.
becky-come-lately over there really thinks she’s onto something!
April 23rd, 2009 at 3:57 pm #
i wonder where chela sandoval’s methodology of the oppressed (http://www.indiebound.org/book/9780816627370) is on her bookshelf? cause there is NO discussion of the methodology of love or revolutionary love that sandoval discusses.
plus she’s totally telling on herself cause that book she is a disciple of wasn’t published till 2004! IF we give her the benefit of the doubt: she read it 5 years ago, but really, she could have read it last week!
it’s ish like this that makes me want to take my master’s degree in women’s studies off my cv, resume, webpage and everywhere else! oh the shame!
April 23rd, 2009 at 3:59 pm #
Wow. There is a whole constellation of disturbing problems with that piece of writing:
Yes, as BFP has noted, it follows in the astounding, and ever-depressing, feminist-blogosphere tradition of appropriating language or ideas that have been in vibrant, buzzing circulation on RWOC blogs, except now the concepts have been largely de-politicized, and the people who’ve been talking about them on blogs and with friends and in organizing meetings on a volunteer-with-vision basis have been marginalized out of view, and the professional white writer has been paid.
A-and: How in the world could Kipnis’s attack on love and linking of coupledom and capitalism be “unnerving” or surprising to a reader who in the previous paragraph has stated familiarity with the feminist “canon”? Oh, wait — I just re-read that first paragraph — “books about love as a form of capitalist enslavement … don’t often make the cut” in the women’s studies canon? I admit I’ve never taken a women’s studies class, but I’ve read a LOT of texts that are legendary in feminist movement that talk about normative models of love and relationship as a form of capitalist oppression (many of which, incidentally, don’t use that “slave” word, cuz they have a consciousness about the differences between forms of oppression and are more careful with their language than that) — among them about half a dozen books by bell hooks, who is mentioned twice in the same article in which the writer suggests Kipnis broke ground with these ideas? What? Mind-blowing.
And then there’s the apparent complete ignorance of queer theory or generations-old radical-queer challenges to normative relationship models that marry love to capitalism.
And through all that, the piece manages not to offer any really radical challenges to capitalism or other power structures, it just says some subversive words and hopes we’ll mistake that for an actual political challenge.
So, basically, it is an exemplar of white liberalism in general, and white liberal feminism in particular: appropriating the work of radical women of color and radical queers, profiting off such appropriation, and assimilating actual radical critiques and visions into an unthreatening non-challenge to the powers that be.
Wow.
Radically loving all of you,
Jess
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:02 pm #
what jess said
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:05 pm #
Sorry cna I throw in a dash of, how many bleeding conversations have we and I’m gonna run with the selfish been in online offline PERSONALLY been laughed , beaten or terrorized out the building for daring to venture that there was a new way to love that didn’t require our sacrifing
our language
our music
or lovers
or partners
or children
or BEING
but the BEST YOU GOT IS KEEPING YOUR LAST NAME
REALLY
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:05 pm #
Alright, I agree it’s silly (and Feministing is an admittedly semi-silly sight) but Jessica Valenti is not a radical; she’s a pro-capitalist, mainstream liberal. Isn’t making fun of her idea of feminism kind of like laughing at Jane Fonda’s ideas about “health”? Am I missing something (i.e. does Valenti *deliberately* marginalize radical WOC voices?).
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:08 pm #
Darcy, you are missing something (saying this with respect), and I’m not going to explain it (again saying with respect). It’s not worth my time or anybody else here. If people don’t get what’s going on, just move on. The rest of us need to drink that rum and point fingers and laugh for a minute.
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:10 pm #
@ Jess–I *am* a woman’s studies major. This essay was required reading for about half of my classes starting in womens studies 101: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compulsory_Heterosexuality_and_Lesbian_Existence
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:16 pm #
@bfp – yeah, I read that one clandestinely beneath the desk at a temp job once — thanks for confirming my sneaking suspicion that it just *might* be considered canonical in US women’s studies. i had a hunch.
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:23 pm #
“It’s not worth my time or anybody else here. If people don’t get what’s going on, just move on. The rest of us need to drink that rum and point fingers and laugh for a minute.”
I get that it’s annoying dealing with someone who isn’t familiar with what you’re talking about. But it seems to me like you’re more interested in having some kind of clubhouse here instead of reaching out to people who are interested in learning. And it’s not worth my time to try and explain why that’s a problem to anyone seriously concerned with movement-building.
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:25 pm #
I don’t even have words…
Damn…that is some seriously messed up…
I am glad you can laugh at least…
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:37 pm #
I just…
*facepalm*
What Jess said. If I say anything more, I’ll be Mrs. Meany Meanerson (that’s right, MRS. and I’ll have you know that my dish-washing rights have been SEVERELY repressed ever since I got married).
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:37 pm #
Darcy. I’m not interested in reaching out to people who are interested in learning. Sorry.
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:42 pm #
But keeping your maiden name is SRS BIZNESS! I’m sure there were lots of tear-filled conversations about eco-friendly heirloom diamond rings and recycled paper announcements that preceded that conversation.
Darcy, there’s this great thing called google. Also, a library. Try them. here’s another place to start the next time you feel like asking someone to build the bridge to you.
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:42 pm #
Darcy, you’re on the right track with understanding what’s wrong, but I think you have to understand that the people in this situation have a history, and almost the same exact thing has happened before. From my perspective, it’s not about having a “clubhouse,” it’s about not wanting to re-hash old arguments when it’s clear that people haven’t learned anything from them.
Also — it’s not BFP’s job to educate you. Try reading around and drawing your own conclusions.
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:46 pm #
sos omeone linked me to this and this is why my head explodes or more so i point and laugh nasty
becuase for all this Radical love shit
http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2009/apr/24/feminist-wedding-jessica-valenti
Still had to have this
“So, while our wedding will be politicised, it won’t be a feminist caricature: I won’t be sporting Birkenstocks under my dress and we won’t ask the “Goddess” for a blessing.”
Because your radical love is STILL about telling people your not one of THOSE feminists cause that’s how are love is
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:51 pm #
you know what? Patience=very thin. Ignoring is a very good thing right now. I’m sick and tired of white folks making it all about them. THis is a post that is about ME and other women of color. I don’t want fucking education going on right now. I want laughter and gum throwing and total bitchiness from people who care about me and women of color more than education.
I am a selfish bitch that way.
Enough educating. More gum throwing.
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:54 pm #
oh lord. oh good goddess. oh fucking a.
“You can’t just walk out on your job or quit in a huff. You can’t make unilateral career decisions, or change jobs without extensive discussion and negotiation. You can’t have your own bank account.” She continues, “You can’t leave the dishes for later, wash the dishes badly, not use soap, drink straight from the container.”
really. ive done all those things and more. im drinking straight from the container as i write. and it is good. so good.
here’s the thing. i thought we had settled most of these issues back in the 70s.
and what is with the extreme individualism of this piece? the individualism that caters to a capitalistic vision of the human being as an extremely autonomous without relationships or responsibilities to others. whether they be partners, children, parents, friends, lovers, neighbors, fellow members of your collective, etc. etc. etc. things such as: accountability, responsibility, community *are* radical.
and the way that ‘radical love’ is really all about the white femmies fight to not shave their arms? ummm…really? that is the core of the transgressive element of feminism?
hell, i feel like shaving my arms right now just in protest to this shite.
and davis’s women race and class *does* have a critique of capitalism and marriage. but of course she is critiquing the way that white women’s sexuality has been constructed vs. women of color’s sexuality and how marriage codes have been used to oppress woc.
i hate the mention a couple of woc writers and then toss their work aside in order to make way for the ‘radical’ white woman’s critique of coupledom.
dude, im sorry but i was critiquing monogamy back when i was a teenager.
oh and mainstream femmies are not taboo breaking…they are just reifying the kyriarchy. when she makes the struggle for women’s humanity about such piddly topics it demeans all of us.
god. dear fucking goddess.
the sad part is i think you are right bfp…i think she was being sincere.
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:57 pm #
In fact, Kipnis’ book was so good at getting me into a decided state of mind that I’ve recently been able to say “screw it” to her book’s very premise: I’m getting married this year.
Fucking LOL.
Welllllll, isn’t she special.
April 23rd, 2009 at 4:59 pm #
I feel like singing a rousing version of get me to the church : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9pdnSy_nWQ
When I get trashed the night before I get married, will you all get me to the church????
and shave my arms before I get there?
Or better yet, shave my chin hair?????
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:02 pm #
“Also — it’s not BFP’s job to educate you.”
No one said it was. If Jessica Valenti is such an enemy of WOC I figured plenty of other commenters would be willing to testify.
“Try reading around and drawing your own conclusions.”
Honestly this experience will probably keep me from bothering with radical blogs for awhile. The irony is that I’m guessing it’s a similar “sorry not interested in your point of view” attitude on mainstream feminist’s part that’s lead to the bitterness on display here. If feminism is a bunch of women sitting around ignoring/mocking/silencing each other then I want no part of it. You can keep your precious train wreck.
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:03 pm #
ohhh, look at what I just found curtesy of annaham! http://www.derailingfordummies.com/
Thanks much annaham!!! It’s *perfect*
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:08 pm #
bfp, maybe you should consider plaiting your chin hair. I hear it’s very non-traditional. Ooooo, you could dye it off-white!
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:12 pm #
The go darcy damn it I dont se eyou being up in arms about teh stupidityi n the article or the caricaturing
shut up and get the hell on
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:12 pm #
Darcy–nobody is going to testify about shit. And if you had *any* freaking idea about my world you would know that I *spit* YES, SPIT, on the name feminism.
I don’t give a fucking SHIT if you read this blog or want to form a movement or pray to baby jesus. I don’t give a shit about fucking solidarity that insists on centering the needs of some white woman instead of MY fucking needs. Did you ever think that maybe I have a fucking good reason for not feeling like rehashing the entire sordid history for your eager little eyes? Did you ever think that maybe rehashing the entire situation so that you “learn” is physically painful to a whole fucking bunch of us? Did you?
Take your “solidarity” and your threats and your desire to learn and please. Go find some feminist wonder woman to share it with. I’m sick of it.
Now. Fucking ENOUGH.
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:24 pm #
*holding BFP’s hand*
Darcy, I’m a little fuzzy about the history too but read everyone’s comments, pay attention to what BFP is saying and really – it’s not about me or you not fully getting it.
I think it’s pretty clear what some of the feelings and thoughts are about in relation to the article. Maybe that should be enough without knowing any backstory?
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:32 pm #
Sweet mother of Audre Lorde, I can’t tell whether to laugh at this shameless nonsense or be so disgusted I could spit.
What Blackamazon, Maia, and Jess said. Like, how many times does this have to happen? Do these people think nobody will notice? When they keep cribbing from the same people–same person? How stupid do they think people are, while they try their damnedest to make a whole movement of social justice about their personal, individual careers?
Do they even know what “radical” means?
Okay, I guess I can do incredulous laughter and overwhelming disgust at the same time. Bfp, mujer, you have more patience than ten of me.
Okay, going back? What Adele said, too. There’s nothing radical about most of us keeping our jobs when we marry, if we can marry, or whatever. Most of us don’t do it to show how independent we are. We do it to survive and keep a roof over our heads and those of our families. We don’t have the choice. Just how unconscious are these people? It just boggles my mind.
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:38 pm #
I just smashed my guitar into my wall. I’m going to set it on fire after I am finished stomping on the little peices.
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:44 pm #
Darcy, and please don’t hang that shit on BFP about not reading radical blogs because of *this* experience.
Take some responsibility for yourself. All that has happened to you is that you aren’t being spoonfed, think about what it may mean for others here.
KTHANKXBAI.
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:48 pm #
‘mana, I owe you drinks as soon as I get to the D. Okay, that’s in July, but still.
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:51 pm #
o.o Darcy can’t even let you have your thread. I’m sorry, bfp
blackamazon: read what you linked, what the shit is that? Her household growing up was so feminist, except for the part where her mother did most of the housework? Her fiance is such a great feminist boyfriend, except for the part where he *totally failed* to work on the wedding equally?
…
yeah her wedding with invites and a band and months of planning and some mean person online told her she was being a sop how cruel…why won’t everyone be like the nice feminist woman who wore a purple wedding dress? that’s some radical shit right there.
what the fuck?
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:54 pm #
I just shit a rabbit. I should be given a medal. http://elvira.tumblr.com/post/99359968/morningpaperblow-via-sassycasserole
April 23rd, 2009 at 5:56 pm #
YES! Little light, I can’t wait to see you again!!!! and I TOTALLY will be expecting drinks. TOTALLY. And really really really loud laughter in a very small little resturant. we need to blow everybody out of the room with our laughter.
April 23rd, 2009 at 6:00 pm #
You know. Ok, alright. I am sorry. To Darcy, to everybody on this thread. I usually don’t blow my cool, and I admit to you Darcy, I would usually be much more patient, but there’s other stuff going on in my life and yes, good goddamn, I do have a life outside of this measly blog. My Patience line is very thin and frayed and I am sorry.
Just let me say. There is a time to make this All About You. And this is not the time.
Ok. Now. I’m going to make a new fucking thread. ANd I’m going to start over.