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	<title>Comments on: After the trial</title>
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	<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/23/after-the-trail/</link>
	<description>it's where the movement is...</description>
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		<title>By: violet</title>
		<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/23/after-the-trail/comment-page-1/#comment-4561</link>
		<dc:creator>violet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 May 2009 17:27:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flipfloppingjoy.com/?p=957#comment-4561</guid>
		<description>(Sorry to zombie this thread, slightly.)

&lt;blockquote&gt;I can’t feel happy that yet another Latino human being is being thrown in jail forever–but as somebody else said THANK GOD that for just fucking ONCE the necessity of the life of a beautiful woman is affirmed.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes. That. And the hope that beneath the arguments and defences and verdicts, there is actual change, however &lt;a title=&quot;i would say &#039;glacial&#039;, but glaciers are moving pretty quick these days. stones, not so much.&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;stone-like&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I don’t want that kind of justice–I want living breathing human beings type of justice.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And also that.

It&#039;s hard, though. I believe in deeper justice, in justice-from-love, in a justice that works not because trans woman are raped killed but their communities are strong and supported but because trans woman are not raped and killed, in a justice that does not then itself beat, rape, and mutilate trans women. I do not believe I will see this world in my life.

Which leaves me in-between. I don&#039;t think the criminal justice system is a machine that produces justice. But I also don&#039;t think the leviathan is going to drown any time soon, so I have to be slightly relieved that it seems to be capable of something slightly less horrific than I&#039;ve seen before. It&#039;s a twisted hope, but there you go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(Sorry to zombie this thread, slightly.)</p>
<blockquote><p>I can’t feel happy that yet another Latino human being is being thrown in jail forever–but as somebody else said THANK GOD that for just fucking ONCE the necessity of the life of a beautiful woman is affirmed.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes. That. And the hope that beneath the arguments and defences and verdicts, there is actual change, however <a title="i would say 'glacial', but glaciers are moving pretty quick these days. stones, not so much." rel="nofollow">stone-like</a>.</p>
<blockquote><p>I don’t want that kind of justice–I want living breathing human beings type of justice.</p></blockquote>
<p>And also that.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s hard, though. I believe in deeper justice, in justice-from-love, in a justice that works not because trans woman are raped killed but their communities are strong and supported but because trans woman are not raped and killed, in a justice that does not then itself beat, rape, and mutilate trans women. I do not believe I will see this world in my life.</p>
<p>Which leaves me in-between. I don&#8217;t think the criminal justice system is a machine that produces justice. But I also don&#8217;t think the leviathan is going to drown any time soon, so I have to be slightly relieved that it seems to be capable of something slightly less horrific than I&#8217;ve seen before. It&#8217;s a twisted hope, but there you go.</p>
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		<title>By: sophia</title>
		<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/23/after-the-trail/comment-page-1/#comment-4296</link>
		<dc:creator>sophia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 21:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flipfloppingjoy.com/?p=957#comment-4296</guid>
		<description>thanks for this. 

i don&#039;t invest my ideas about justice into &quot;criminal justice&quot; but i do think that this may be a turning point of sorts on the trans deceiver defense, which CAN make a difference in our lives.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thanks for this. </p>
<p>i don&#8217;t invest my ideas about justice into &#8220;criminal justice&#8221; but i do think that this may be a turning point of sorts on the trans deceiver defense, which CAN make a difference in our lives.</p>
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		<title>By: Gente, Our Youth are Dying &#171; Raven&#8217;s Eye</title>
		<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/23/after-the-trail/comment-page-1/#comment-4229</link>
		<dc:creator>Gente, Our Youth are Dying &#171; Raven&#8217;s Eye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 19:15:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flipfloppingjoy.com/?p=957#comment-4229</guid>
		<description>[...] do. If you cannot find a tangible space in your community, we are here. There are spaces online and activists online writing about these topics. Find us, reach out, write, cry, talk, dance, meditate, create, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] do. If you cannot find a tangible space in your community, we are here. There are spaces online and activists online writing about these topics. Find us, reach out, write, cry, talk, dance, meditate, create, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: INTPagan</title>
		<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/23/after-the-trail/comment-page-1/#comment-4149</link>
		<dc:creator>INTPagan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 16:07:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flipfloppingjoy.com/?p=957#comment-4149</guid>
		<description>Fuckin&#039; amen.  Justice isn&#039;t whenever someone is punished for their crimes, or even when their crimes are acknowledged for what they are.  Justice is when the crimes don&#039;t happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fuckin&#8217; amen.  Justice isn&#8217;t whenever someone is punished for their crimes, or even when their crimes are acknowledged for what they are.  Justice is when the crimes don&#8217;t happen.</p>
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		<title>By: andhera</title>
		<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/23/after-the-trail/comment-page-1/#comment-4121</link>
		<dc:creator>andhera</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Apr 2009 07:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flipfloppingjoy.com/?p=957#comment-4121</guid>
		<description>thank you for this-- it captures my feelings beautifully.

i was recently assaulted and people asked if i would go to the police-- why? what would that do? would it end rape culture? would it have taught &quot;friends&quot; that blaming the victim stuff isn&#039;t ok? would it heal me? would it heal the man of color who assaulted me? nope.

the kind of justice i want can&#039;t be found in the same state that oppresses folks in my community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>thank you for this&#8211; it captures my feelings beautifully.</p>
<p>i was recently assaulted and people asked if i would go to the police&#8211; why? what would that do? would it end rape culture? would it have taught &#8220;friends&#8221; that blaming the victim stuff isn&#8217;t ok? would it heal me? would it heal the man of color who assaulted me? nope.</p>
<p>the kind of justice i want can&#8217;t be found in the same state that oppresses folks in my community.</p>
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		<title>By: terese</title>
		<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/23/after-the-trail/comment-page-1/#comment-4044</link>
		<dc:creator>terese</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 22:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flipfloppingjoy.com/?p=957#comment-4044</guid>
		<description>yes! thanks for bringing the conversation about real justice in the direction it needs to go. 

i had an immediate yay type reaction when i read the verdict on the twitter feed, but of course it is not enough, and it is not a happy ending or a yay moment at all. although i hope it can bring some kind of relief and &#039;closure&#039; (as far as that is possible) for her family and friends. 

it is a real shame that the word &#039;justice&#039; is too often only talked about when preceded by the word &#039;criminal&#039;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>yes! thanks for bringing the conversation about real justice in the direction it needs to go. </p>
<p>i had an immediate yay type reaction when i read the verdict on the twitter feed, but of course it is not enough, and it is not a happy ending or a yay moment at all. although i hope it can bring some kind of relief and &#8216;closure&#8217; (as far as that is possible) for her family and friends. </p>
<p>it is a real shame that the word &#8216;justice&#8217; is too often only talked about when preceded by the word &#8216;criminal&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: after the trial &#171; Raven&#8217;s Eye</title>
		<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/23/after-the-trail/comment-page-1/#comment-4034</link>
		<dc:creator>after the trial &#171; Raven&#8217;s Eye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 17:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] cross posted from flip flopping joy [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] cross posted from flip flopping joy [...]</p>
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