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	<title>Comments on: world day must mean it&#8217;s time to talk population control&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/22/world-day-must-mean-its-time-to-talk-population-control/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/22/world-day-must-mean-its-time-to-talk-population-control/</link>
	<description>it's where the movement is...</description>
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		<title>By: katrina</title>
		<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/22/world-day-must-mean-its-time-to-talk-population-control/comment-page-1/#comment-4317</link>
		<dc:creator>katrina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Apr 2009 10:47:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flipfloppingjoy.com/?p=951#comment-4317</guid>
		<description>What a relief it is to find this opinion expressed. All my (white, western) friends are getting very, very into reproducing themselves, and I dare not mention that a western couple stopping at two children is the same, in environmental terms, as a Bangladeshi couple stopping at 1000.
Nobody that I know sees how our consumption habits are bleeding the rest of the world dry. Thanks for pointing out that part of the problem, Whit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a relief it is to find this opinion expressed. All my (white, western) friends are getting very, very into reproducing themselves, and I dare not mention that a western couple stopping at two children is the same, in environmental terms, as a Bangladeshi couple stopping at 1000.<br />
Nobody that I know sees how our consumption habits are bleeding the rest of the world dry. Thanks for pointing out that part of the problem, Whit.</p>
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		<title>By: Titanis walleri</title>
		<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/22/world-day-must-mean-its-time-to-talk-population-control/comment-page-1/#comment-4198</link>
		<dc:creator>Titanis walleri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 07:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flipfloppingjoy.com/?p=951#comment-4198</guid>
		<description>iirc, most of our ecological problems can be traced back 1000 years or more, some of them tens of thousands...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>iirc, most of our ecological problems can be traced back 1000 years or more, some of them tens of thousands&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Whit</title>
		<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/22/world-day-must-mean-its-time-to-talk-population-control/comment-page-1/#comment-4029</link>
		<dc:creator>Whit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 15:49:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flipfloppingjoy.com/?p=951#comment-4029</guid>
		<description>I think we do produce enough food to feed everyone in the world - the problem is that areas with low yield or income, or high population density, or all of them together, don&#039;t produce enough food to feed their people. 

Not only that, but there are plenty of highly productive areas in places like Guatemala, for example, where US and other international interests, own a large percentage of the arable land and use it to ship food back to the G20 countries so that we can have cheap oranges and bananas year round. 

The company I work for is an importer of food ingredients, and it is not cheap. The only reason we buy foodstuffs overseas rather than from the US &amp; canadian crops is because even with duties and freight charges, the profit margins are greater than buying say, beet sugar from michigan, or soy meal from canada. That chicken that was raised in california was raised on soy meal from china, and the quinoa from an american or canadian milling company (we deal with most of the organic mills I&#039;ve seen on store shelves) is from bolivia. The sugar in some locally produced foodstuffs isn&#039;t sourced from say, a local michigan beet sugar company, but it&#039;s from Brazil. 

We move this food all over the world because privilege + money enables it. It has got to stop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we do produce enough food to feed everyone in the world &#8211; the problem is that areas with low yield or income, or high population density, or all of them together, don&#8217;t produce enough food to feed their people. </p>
<p>Not only that, but there are plenty of highly productive areas in places like Guatemala, for example, where US and other international interests, own a large percentage of the arable land and use it to ship food back to the G20 countries so that we can have cheap oranges and bananas year round. </p>
<p>The company I work for is an importer of food ingredients, and it is not cheap. The only reason we buy foodstuffs overseas rather than from the US &amp; canadian crops is because even with duties and freight charges, the profit margins are greater than buying say, beet sugar from michigan, or soy meal from canada. That chicken that was raised in california was raised on soy meal from china, and the quinoa from an american or canadian milling company (we deal with most of the organic mills I&#8217;ve seen on store shelves) is from bolivia. The sugar in some locally produced foodstuffs isn&#8217;t sourced from say, a local michigan beet sugar company, but it&#8217;s from Brazil. </p>
<p>We move this food all over the world because privilege + money enables it. It has got to stop.</p>
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		<title>By: Nora</title>
		<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/22/world-day-must-mean-its-time-to-talk-population-control/comment-page-1/#comment-4026</link>
		<dc:creator>Nora</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 15:36:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flipfloppingjoy.com/?p=951#comment-4026</guid>
		<description>Interesting how the &quot;US Americans have hugely disproportionate eco-footprints&quot; news of a few years ago didn&#039;t seem to result in the same same &quot;bomb the water system with contraceptive drugs&quot; message.  

I double dog dare you to change your profile pic to your one of your vagina...though I&#039;m not sure it would actually result in an overall decrease in creep traffic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting how the &#8220;US Americans have hugely disproportionate eco-footprints&#8221; news of a few years ago didn&#8217;t seem to result in the same same &#8220;bomb the water system with contraceptive drugs&#8221; message.  </p>
<p>I double dog dare you to change your profile pic to your one of your vagina&#8230;though I&#8217;m not sure it would actually result in an overall decrease in creep traffic.</p>
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		<title>By: ideealisme</title>
		<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/22/world-day-must-mean-its-time-to-talk-population-control/comment-page-1/#comment-4022</link>
		<dc:creator>ideealisme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 13:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flipfloppingjoy.com/?p=951#comment-4022</guid>
		<description>I think you would like this link:

http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/6421/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you would like this link:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/6421/" rel="nofollow">http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/6421/</a></p>
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		<title>By: SA</title>
		<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/22/world-day-must-mean-its-time-to-talk-population-control/comment-page-1/#comment-4021</link>
		<dc:creator>SA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 12:59:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flipfloppingjoy.com/?p=951#comment-4021</guid>
		<description>Here is the definiton of genocide under international law:

Genocide means any of the following acts committed to destroy, in whole or part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:

   1. Killing members of the group;
   2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
   3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
   4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group
   5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.

http://www.hrweb.org/legal/genocide.html

This is definitely number 4, and could also be 2 and 3.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is the definiton of genocide under international law:</p>
<p>Genocide means any of the following acts committed to destroy, in whole or part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:</p>
<p>   1. Killing members of the group;<br />
   2. Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;<br />
   3. Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;<br />
   4. Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group<br />
   5. Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.hrweb.org/legal/genocide.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.hrweb.org/legal/genocide.html</a></p>
<p>This is definitely number 4, and could also be 2 and 3.</p>
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		<title>By: Jen</title>
		<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/22/world-day-must-mean-its-time-to-talk-population-control/comment-page-1/#comment-4017</link>
		<dc:creator>Jen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 11:49:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flipfloppingjoy.com/?p=951#comment-4017</guid>
		<description>*applause* great post

Scary how in discussions of reproductive rights, when the discussion centres on women in &quot;developing&quot; (don&#039;t like the word for obvious reasons) nations, it&#039;s all about, how can we educate them to use contraception and have fewer kids. 

Yet you see all types of &quot;fantastic empowered women&quot; articles about women entrepreneurs working into their 70s, with glorious stories of their wonderful and numerous grandchildren, and how they&#039;ve got so much more to offer them cause they&#039;ve, I don&#039;t know, had zillions of expensive holidays in other people&#039;s misery and lots of money to buy treats. 

I get creeped out in the UK (perhaps Ruth can corroborate this) by the coverage of stories about children - not only do only the cute, blonde crime victims get picked for coverage, but the tabloids are all &quot;look at the &lt;i&gt;beautiful&lt;/i&gt; child&quot;, which instantly says to me, &quot;look at the quality genetic material we lost!&quot;. Not only is it scandalous that no one is interested in the thousands of kids who disappear every year that, maybe, have less blonde or cute genetic material, but the kid himself doesn&#039;t deserve that. I&#039;d hate to be a kid watching the news now: you&#039;re either a ten-year-old murderer, an eight-year-old murder victim, you&#039;ve vanished, or you&#039;re invisible, or if you&#039;re not white you&#039;re probably a knife-crime victim in a seedy part of a big city - all the emotions and reactionary attitudes of adults being projected onto you, must be really scary. 

You talked about the issue of &quot;developing&quot; the land as well, it&#039;s horrifying that things as precious as land, people, culture, geography, are valued as commodities rather than for what they really are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*applause* great post</p>
<p>Scary how in discussions of reproductive rights, when the discussion centres on women in &#8220;developing&#8221; (don&#8217;t like the word for obvious reasons) nations, it&#8217;s all about, how can we educate them to use contraception and have fewer kids. </p>
<p>Yet you see all types of &#8220;fantastic empowered women&#8221; articles about women entrepreneurs working into their 70s, with glorious stories of their wonderful and numerous grandchildren, and how they&#8217;ve got so much more to offer them cause they&#8217;ve, I don&#8217;t know, had zillions of expensive holidays in other people&#8217;s misery and lots of money to buy treats. </p>
<p>I get creeped out in the UK (perhaps Ruth can corroborate this) by the coverage of stories about children &#8211; not only do only the cute, blonde crime victims get picked for coverage, but the tabloids are all &#8220;look at the <i>beautiful</i> child&#8221;, which instantly says to me, &#8220;look at the quality genetic material we lost!&#8221;. Not only is it scandalous that no one is interested in the thousands of kids who disappear every year that, maybe, have less blonde or cute genetic material, but the kid himself doesn&#8217;t deserve that. I&#8217;d hate to be a kid watching the news now: you&#8217;re either a ten-year-old murderer, an eight-year-old murder victim, you&#8217;ve vanished, or you&#8217;re invisible, or if you&#8217;re not white you&#8217;re probably a knife-crime victim in a seedy part of a big city &#8211; all the emotions and reactionary attitudes of adults being projected onto you, must be really scary. </p>
<p>You talked about the issue of &#8220;developing&#8221; the land as well, it&#8217;s horrifying that things as precious as land, people, culture, geography, are valued as commodities rather than for what they really are.</p>
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		<title>By: Renee</title>
		<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/22/world-day-must-mean-its-time-to-talk-population-control/comment-page-1/#comment-4007</link>
		<dc:creator>Renee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 04:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flipfloppingjoy.com/?p=951#comment-4007</guid>
		<description>Of course the flip side to the fear of the brown vagina is promoting the birth rate of white women.  It is not fear of pot population increase that really scared people but the thought that they could be over run by the uncivilized brown hordes.  I think that you can really see this with the treatment of the pregnancy of Bristol Palin vs the teenage pregnancy of a young black woman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course the flip side to the fear of the brown vagina is promoting the birth rate of white women.  It is not fear of pot population increase that really scared people but the thought that they could be over run by the uncivilized brown hordes.  I think that you can really see this with the treatment of the pregnancy of Bristol Palin vs the teenage pregnancy of a young black woman.</p>
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		<title>By: jess</title>
		<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/22/world-day-must-mean-its-time-to-talk-population-control/comment-page-1/#comment-4005</link>
		<dc:creator>jess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 04:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flipfloppingjoy.com/?p=951#comment-4005</guid>
		<description>Right on (as usual).
You and Winona LaDuke on the radio were the very best of Earth Day, I say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right on (as usual).<br />
You and Winona LaDuke on the radio were the very best of Earth Day, I say.</p>
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		<title>By: bfp</title>
		<link>http://flipfloppingjoy.com/2009/04/22/world-day-must-mean-its-time-to-talk-population-control/comment-page-1/#comment-3997</link>
		<dc:creator>bfp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 00:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flipfloppingjoy.com/?p=951#comment-3997</guid>
		<description>@anon--I know. The guy talking was nothing more than a scare monger, IMO. He was basically to the point that he didn&#039;t care *what* happened, as long as something happened--he even said something along the lines of &quot;China may not have found the greatest way to deal with this, but at least they&#039;re dealing with it&quot; or something like that. The one woman on the panel was like--actually, several countries have thought about how to deal with population control and have gotten much better effects through less coercive means (I think she said Sweden and brazil as examples and pointed out how all they had done was make condomns and other birth control available).

Another interesting note, anon, was that the effects of contraceptives in water was actually discussed. A woman who works with dolphins and endocrines noted that the effect of contraceptives in the water system is producing devistating results on most ecosystems and pointed out that she wasn&#039;t really sure how that would help--the main panalist guy was like--ah, yes, good point. But we have to do something. Or something. 

I&#039;m like--how about we *start* with cleaning up all the devistation we have committed world wide on our ecosystems--and maybe, just maybe, those ecosystems could actually provide enough food/resources for the population as it exists? I mean, I hate to be all, NO NO TO CONTRACEPTIVES, because when women have access, they use them, and I in NO way want to deny women the right to contraceptives--but why are these discussions on the environment ALWAYS centered on the bodies of third world/developing world? It&#039;s the mexicans fault that the desert is being destroyed (nothing to do with the massive fence being built across that same desert, see community news) or the brown women who won&#039;t stop having babies, or the brown women who want to use tampons instead of moon cups or what the fuck ever.

Never *ever* do does the U.S.  ever have to interrogate *its* culpability in this freaking mess?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@anon&#8211;I know. The guy talking was nothing more than a scare monger, IMO. He was basically to the point that he didn&#8217;t care *what* happened, as long as something happened&#8211;he even said something along the lines of &#8220;China may not have found the greatest way to deal with this, but at least they&#8217;re dealing with it&#8221; or something like that. The one woman on the panel was like&#8211;actually, several countries have thought about how to deal with population control and have gotten much better effects through less coercive means (I think she said Sweden and brazil as examples and pointed out how all they had done was make condomns and other birth control available).</p>
<p>Another interesting note, anon, was that the effects of contraceptives in water was actually discussed. A woman who works with dolphins and endocrines noted that the effect of contraceptives in the water system is producing devistating results on most ecosystems and pointed out that she wasn&#8217;t really sure how that would help&#8211;the main panalist guy was like&#8211;ah, yes, good point. But we have to do something. Or something. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m like&#8211;how about we *start* with cleaning up all the devistation we have committed world wide on our ecosystems&#8211;and maybe, just maybe, those ecosystems could actually provide enough food/resources for the population as it exists? I mean, I hate to be all, NO NO TO CONTRACEPTIVES, because when women have access, they use them, and I in NO way want to deny women the right to contraceptives&#8211;but why are these discussions on the environment ALWAYS centered on the bodies of third world/developing world? It&#8217;s the mexicans fault that the desert is being destroyed (nothing to do with the massive fence being built across that same desert, see community news) or the brown women who won&#8217;t stop having babies, or the brown women who want to use tampons instead of moon cups or what the fuck ever.</p>
<p>Never *ever* do does the U.S.  ever have to interrogate *its* culpability in this freaking mess?</p>
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